Help Us Help You
by T. Hodler
Friday, January 18, 2008
Loyal CC reader Alex H. has requested a second Cage Match feature, and while it may be a week or two before we’re ready for another one, we still need a good topic for discussion. (If you missed the first one, our subject was the current in-progress remake of Omega the Unknown.) So if any of you readers have any suggestions, please let us know by posting them in the comments. Maybe we’ll set up a poll or something after we’ve gotten enough good possibilities. Or maybe we’ll just decide amongst ourselves, if there’s only one or two.
So far, the following have been suggested:
1. Persepolis
2. The kind-of post-Bill Sienkiewicz comics created by people like Dave McKean and David Mack
3. Enigma
4. All Star Superman
5. All Star Batman and Robin
6. Marvel Zombies 2
Some of those seem like they might work, some of them don’t, but it would definitely help for us to have a few more choices (non-superhero comics are more than welcome). Don’t miss this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity!
Labels: Cage Match, Cyber-Age Opportunities for Interactive Media
Hey Tim-
I emailed you these a while back. I just got the new Dragon Head today. It’s over after Book 10 so maybe you should hold off until it’s over?
Anyways:
Paul Pope
Monster
Dragon Head
David Heatley
Phoenix
Shortcomings
Crickets
Joann Sfar
Thanks for the reminder, Alex. I forgot about those — there are some good ones in there!
Fun Home. Blankets. Any Manga.
sienkiewicz, mckean, muth, etc
Related to the recent Marshall Rogers discussion (kinda):
Craft (Caniff, Ware) Vs Style (Kochalka, Art Comics, etc.)
I only ask because it would be illuminating to me, as someone yearning still unsuccessfully to “get” a lot of the artsy stuff. I hate to see you guys fight.
sorry i’ll squash that one right away. Mat Brinkman is one of the most “craft” oriented artists I know and he would be on the “art comics” side. So the distinction is off. The type of “craft” would be too hard to determine for discussion. It is an interesting question, I’ll give you that. The cage matches need to be a little more “Siskel and Roeper” and just use individual works, I say. But still I’d like to do something on “art comics” vs old-school cartooning training, Dustin, so thanks.
I think the post-Sienkiewicz school would be pretty great too.
Let’s not squash anything too early, Frank. Especially since that bit about Brinkman you just mentioned would have been perfect to use in the Cage Match!
But I think I agree that we should probably try to keep this to individual titles (or artists who haven’t done an especially large body of work). Maybe later we can try more general topics like the craft question (which is definitely a good, large topic), which may be a little harder to deal with in a single Cage Match.
Is there anyone besides Kochalka you’d suggest, Dustin?
Oh, and by the same logic, the post-Sienkewicz school might be too broad to do in one go, too. Well, I guess we’ll see what we come up with.
new sienkiewicz interview:
http://www.sequentialtart.com/article.php?id=821
Okay, no squashing. I’d do the “craft vs style”
I’ll argue any of the topics out.
But then I’d have to read Fun Home. shit.
persepolis
Marvel Zombies 2.
Hey, hey, hey! The voting will come later. We’re just looking for new suggestions now. You’ll have your chance to choose sides between Persepolis or Marvel Zombies 2 soon enough.
My inner bimbo #1-3 (Sam Kieth)
Army@Love #1-… (Rick Veitch)
5 is the perfect number (Igort)
don’t squash the voting, T !!
Please shout your votes!
Brandon Graham’s stuff that came out last year- total genre work, generally acclaimed by some of the same people who will talk up Powr Mastrs, but coming from a different strain of influence that might make you less comfortable with it.
(I never meant to suggest Enigma as a cage match comic, by the way, I just wanted to bring up the fact that Dan said he hoped to “write about it extensively.”)
OK, Frank. You’re right. Sorry everybody — I lost sight of what’s really important for a moment there.
And thanks, Brian. RE Enigma: We’re probably going to have to narrow down the list to five or ten candidates before we put up the poll anyway, so no worries. This is a good way to remind Dan of his promise, anyway. Has it been two years since he promised to write about that? Something like that. The world is waiting.
Persepolis, please. I’m dying to know what Mr. Santoro meant when he tossed out that “A lot of my Persian friends consider Persepolis propaganda” bit a lil’ while back.
I’d like to do Persepolis- I liked it, so I’m eager to hear the arguments to the contrary.
I was engaged to a Persian woman for a couple years. Luckily, it didn’t work out. The way was cleared then …to coach girls roller derby. Ah.
Um, it’s hard to think of someone beside Kochalka, who embodies the sort of, um–I don’t want to rehash old ground, or sound pejorative. Let’s say verve. I like Kochalka’s stuff a lot, especially his “quit-navel-gazing-and-DO-it” attitude. I obviously lack the English skills to get this across.
This will broadcast plainly the level of education I require: how about Gary Panter? And let me say that by “craft” I’m thinking less of abstraction and painterly approaches to comics, and more the classic strip guys, with their fancy Series 7 brushes, and how even the worst of them was the most incredible letterer ever.
I love this blog.
Thanks, Dustin! Gary Panter should probably stay out of bounds for this, unfortunately, since Dan’s one of his publishers. (And plus, all three of us love his stuff.) But he would be a good person to write about in general — I’m sure one of us will do a post about his work at some point.
Understanding Comics or Making Comics or anything by that guy who doesn’t really DO comics
You guys should chat about Ted McKeever. I kind of like the look, but don’t remember much of the comics specifically. But I don’t think I’ve ever seen any critical look at his stuff, and he seems like one of those left-field types that might be “controversial” (?)
Now see, there you go squashing again. Let me just note publicly, loudly, and sissily that I’m not saying anything’s wrong with Panter’s stuff. But I guess it would be hard to argue if all three of you are on one side. Sissies.
Please no name calling. My sissy friends will pay you a visit.
Oh man, I’m taking a beating today. I can’t seem to locate my Enigma set. Seriously. Well, I’m gonna go buy Marvel Zombies and, um, All Star Batman on my home tonight. Great. Thanks a lot. And I can’t do Persepolis. That’ll feel too much like work and we all know the internet is not for work.
I’m beginning to think you’re scared of doing Persepolis, Dan. Possibly scared to admit that you actually like it?
The beating never ends. In the face of so many other bad, dumb “serious” graphic novels from major publishers (Comics is evolving … into MOR fiction. Yes!), I guess I dislike Persepolis a little less. But I still think it’s an incredibly shallow and silly book. There, you egged me on successfully. But anyways, the most recent comic I really enjoyed was that Jay Stephens/Bob Haney Teen Titans special. So… maybe I’m evolving too.
– the comics of Gerald Jablonski
– the one and only issue of Fantagraphics’ Bete Noire
– Alice in Sunderland
– the many fancies of Brendan McCarthy
– Ultra-Gash Inferno
(japanese accent) oooooohhh, Maruo!
Marvel Zombies 2
Speak of the Devil
Madman Atomic Comics
Army@Love
Metal Men
Dragon Head
Testament
Some of the above titles are very good. Some are very bad. Some are just OK. All would generate interesting discussion, I think, because in our current market, finding a monthly from a major that isn’t merely forgettable is an achievement in itself.
GN’s and collections are fine. There’s something really exciting about a good monthly, however. If I walk through the doors of my local comic shop and find the new SoTD waiting for me, I’m genuinely excited. The industry needs more worthwhile monthlies.
Um, I haven’t read all the comments yet, but will soon… but, Mister Miracle (in all his realizations) and the Escapist seems like it’s a gotta go do.
Yeah, OK. I haven’t seen a better suggestion. Sorry. Mister Miracle. The Escapist. Steranko. Kirby. Chabon. (and Byrne, Rogers, Golden, Gibson, Vaughan, etc.) I can feel the heat. Let’s do it. Two escape artists enter, one man leaves. It’s just rich.
I think you guys should have a real cage match instead of a fake internet one. I like the visual image of Tim in a loincloth sinking his teeth into Dan’s leg and yanking out a tendon. Maybe you guys could do it about Persepolis? Dan could use his new baby wiener dog named Mr. Fattypants as a weapon. But the problem is that Frank would win, always, I think, because he’s got the CRAZY EYES!
I’d love to see a cage match about:
1) middle-late period Kirby: Kamandi, Devil Dinosaur, the Eternals;
2) really late period Kirby (Captain Victory, Silver Star)
3) Late period Ditko (all the didactic, self-published stuff)
4) Gilbert Hernandez’s and more main stream work (Yeah! Grip, Girl Crazy).
Jeet
Barry Smith’s recent work
Okay, I’m changing my vote to Steve Ditko, period. I think that covers all the ground I was interested in hearing you guys talking about. Good suggestions, Jeet.
Off topic, but this is a great video for all you inkstuds out there:
http://drawman.blogspot.com/2008/01/razor-blade-inking-technique.html
The Maxx
Elric,
P. Craig Russell