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Heroes Con. Charlotte, North Carolina. Late June 2008. Sunday. Craft in Comics panel with Jaime Hernandez, Jim Rugg, and myself, Frank Santoro. It wasn’t recorded. Bummer. Yet somehow, that was for the best. We didn’t use microphones. There were only about 20-25 people there. Shame on all the folks at the con who missed it. Why would anyone ever miss the chance to see Jaime talk about comics? Oh, you had to watch your table, right. Yeah, on Sunday I heard there were tons of sales. Ahem.

I was moderator. I mean, I lead the discussion. The initial idea was to talk about craft in comics. Craft can mean more than technical skill — to me it means VISION, a way of seeing. Craft is the magic that makes one accept a movie as real, the suspension of disbelief. And that exists in comics, particularly, I believe, in the work of Jaime Hernandez. An honest-to-God master of the form, Jaime has an ability to breathe life into lines on paper that is unparalleled. Only his brother Gilbert can keep up. And they’d each tell you that the other was better.

So my idea was to create a panel, a forum where like-minded artists could discuss and “riff” on craft, on how we create our comics. I wanted the panel to be fun so I started off by encouraging the audience to interject if they’d like to ask a question. “But don’t interrupt Jaime. Me and Jim, fine, but not Jaime.”

Did I introduce myself? I can’t remember. I think I did and also Jaime & Jim, and then I just dove right in. I wanted to set Jaime up with a slow hanging curveball that I knew he’d hit out of the park. I talked about learning basic drawing skills as a teenager and how I had a teacher that really “reached” me at a formative time, an important time. And I knew that Jaime had had a rich education in junior college (I’d heard him tell the story last year at San Diego) and that he could get warmed up by riffing on a familiar story. What was really enjoyable was that although I knew the story Jaime was telling, it was like listening to a favorite song live, in person, and hearing new flourishes, new verses. (If any of you out there are not familiar with the origin of Love and Rockets I highly recommend this interview.)

Jaime told of his old bow-tied teachers who helped provide him with a solid understanding of how to move figures through space, to make them come alive. Between school and comics he fashioned his own education and did so with super-human determination. “There were no classes for what I wanted to do, which was comic books. I wasn’t going to go to the Kubert school in New Jersey. I was in Oxnard and getting $300 a month to go to junior college. I thought that was a good deal.” (Laughter) And then here’s the flourish I was hoping for from Jaime: “I was cocky. I was going to show them that I could do whatever I wanted. There was no one coming out of Punk. There was no one coming out of Low Rider culture. That’s what I wanted to do. And I did it. With Love and Rockets we pushed each other, me and Gilbert. When Gilbert came out with Palomar I really had to make each issue better… Anyways, back to craft.”

I wanted to continue the thread of there never being a sympathetic teacher who “got” comics when I was in school. How I’d bring in a Moebius graphic novel or a Barry Smith print and my teacher would sort of “pooh-pooh” me and tell me “oh, that’s interesting, now could you finish your self-portrait?”

Jim agreed and spoke about how his parents weren’t so comfortable with him trying to break into comics straight out of high school, so he went to a small state school for graphic design instead. “I wanted to do comics, but there was no way to break in. I read the submission guidelines, but it was impossible to even get a response.” I interrupted Jim and told the audience how my friend Rick Mays had gotten hired to draw Nomad for Marvel right out of high school — and how I told my parents that story as proof that if art school was a bust I could always draw comics and support myself. (Insert Nelson Muntz laff here.) Jim also said that he had a teacher who hated all the comics he used to bring into class. “But one day I brought Tyrant by Steve Bissette in and she loved that, she thought that was real art.”

Next, I asked Jaime about Moebius (because I had heard from Tom Spurgeon that Jaime had talked about liking Moebius when he was younger). Was he aware of Moebius in the late ’70s? Jaime remembered when Heavy Metal magazine came out in ’77 and that Moebius’ work did stand out and that he liked it a lot. “All the little lines in Mechanics in issue one were from Moebius a little bit.”

He also spoke about how when he would re-visit the comics he loved as a kid, like Archie, he would notice how expressive the characters were when talking to each other. “My friends would be like, ‘Aww, man, you read Archie? Aww, those are awful, it’s always the same thing, Archie getting chased by Betty and Veronica.’ But if you look at the way Veronica is looking at Archie out of the corner of her eye, and crossing her arms and sort of sneering at him — especially when they’re drawn by Harry Lucey — they’re so real. And so I just put that idea in my comics. I let the characters push the story around with their words and actions.”

All the while, Jaime is leaning forward and back in his chair pantomiming the actions he’s describing. It was another one of those moments where he’s able to really transmit the essence of what he believes as Gospel in comics. That the characters should move through the page, the story, free of plot, free of the constraints of formulaic narrative. One may see formula in Archie’s antics, but Jaime saw a wide field, a frontier. Jaime’s characters are more real to me than any character from a novel, movie, TV show, or ancient myth. I know Maggie and Hopey like I know my best friends. That’s insane. What other art form enables that? What other artist can sustain such a mythology all by himself? No Photoshop. No assistants. (Okay, besides Kirby.)

END PART ONE

(Part two 1.75 includes Alex Ross take-down. Boo-Ya!!)

**I thought I’d put up these thoughts while they are still fresh, and the con still on my memory’s radar. I’ve got pages and pages of notes from after the panel. Since it wasn’t recorded, I frantically tried to get it all down, at least how I remembered it. Jim wrote down a bunch of stuff too that I’ll be incorporating soon enough. I feel the quotes are fairly accurate. But please regard the posts about the panel as my version, like I was telling you a story.

***Thanks to Sammy and Tom for help in framing questions to Jaime.

NEXT: Part 1.5, Part 1.75, and Part 2.0.

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Write us a letter. We’re this close to finishing up the long-awaited fourth issue of Comics Comics, and we want to hear from you. If you have any thoughts, complaints, rants, or raves about any of the stories or comics in the first three issues, please let us know. Do you disagree with Kim Deitch on the meaning of life? Did Dan’s condemnation of the Masters of American Comics show and book stick in your craw? Or maybe you have something to add to our Steve Gerber appreciation, Douglas Wolk review, or the joint interview with David Heatley and Lauren R. Weinstein? These are just ideas — tell us what’s on your mind.

If you do submit a letter, please include your name, location, and phone number, and be aware that we may publish it (meaning the letter, not the phone number), either in the magazine or potentially on this site. Letters may be edited for space or clarity.

E-mail: thodlerATgmailDOTcom

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Ground Floor
Brooklyn, NY 11231

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1. Listen to Dan’s interview with C.F. from this year’s MoCCA, courtesy of Indie Spinner Rack.

2. Go see Gary Panter and Devin Flynn on Saturday at Amoeba Music in Berkeley. Or see Gary later in the day at Park Life in San Francisco at 8 pm.

3. Prepare for Lauren R. Weinstein’s signing for The Goddess of War at Rocketship in Brooklyn Saturday night by taking a photographic tour of her studio.

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The audio of the panel mentioned earlier is now up, for anyone who’s interested. It’s going to be a while before I have time to listen to it myself, fortunately, but I am sure of two things: (1) I sound like an idiot trying to answer Tom Spurgeon’s first question to me, and (2) at the time, I was greatly depressed by some of the things being said, openly, freely, in front of an audience, and on tape, seemingly with little awareness of or concern for the ethical and journalistic implications. (To be clear, it wasn’t the audience or recording devices that bothered me, but the fact that even their presence couldn’t inspire the barest lip service to be paid to the ideal of journalistic independence.) All this doesn’t mean that it was a particularly exciting discussion, so don’t expect fireworks.

(By the way, one of the other panelists, Johanna Draper Carlson, has posted her thoughts as well.)

UPDATE: And now a third panelist, Heidi MacDonald, has also weighed in.

UPDATE II: This guy is making sense! And he’s even more persuasive because of his DEFT use of CAPITAL FUCKING LETTERS!

UPDATE III: Update II was juvenile.

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This past Friday, I was on a panel about comics criticism and journalism at the Heroes Con in North Carolina, and ever since, I’ve been thinking a lot about the ethics of this “business”. Early on in the panel, Tom Spurgeon, who was moderating, asked me how my approach to reading comics has changed since I started editing Comics Comics. Exhausted from an early flight and a lack of coffee, I basically bungled my answer, despite multiple attempts, but I haven’t stopped pondering the question.

Most of Heroes Con was a lot of fun, though. I had to split early, so I’ll leave it to Dan and/or Frank to do a full report if they’re so inclined. (Spurgeon himself has put together a pretty amazing write-up of the event in the meantime.) It was great to meet a lot of people I’ve known only on the internet or through their work, like Tom, Jim Rugg, Dustin Harbin, Craig Fischer, and Tom’s brother Whit (who deserves a television show pronto), as well as to catch up with people I basically only see at conventions and that kind of thing.

However, as enjoyable as these kinds of events can be, a part of me is always a little uncomfortable with them. If I’m going to be editing and writing comics criticism, it’s important to be able to separate personal friendships and acquaintances from my writing, and it’s already a lot more difficult to do than it was just two years ago. (Being married to a cartoonist, and not wanting to have her work unfairly linked to my opinions — we disagree on plenty, believe me — doesn’t really make it any easier.) It’s not really that difficult, but it’s an ethical distinction that I have to be vigilant about, and it’s also probably the largest single difference between how I currently approach comics and how I read and talked about them pre-CC, when I’d praise or trash comics with impunity. Now I try to make a point of not reviewing comics by people I know well, at least in print or on the blog, and I think that’s probably for the best, at least for now. The comics world is a small world, though, and that policy won’t work forever.

Wyatt Mason, one of the better literary critics around, just wrote an interesting post on his new blog about friends reviewing friends in the world of “real books”, and he comes to a different conclusion:

[Edmund] Wilson, whom every young critic in kneesocks and each old one in his dotage now holds up as the ur-critic of the century, could not only review Fitzgerald but legions of his friends’ work through the decades … It can be done honestly – that is to say with intellectual honesty; that is to say, in a fair and balanced (that sadly corrupted phrase) manner which can elevate our understanding of aesthetic enterprise.

I agree with this in theory, but I’m not sure I’m quite ready to put it into practice. Maybe the trick is to emulate someone like Gary Groth, to harden the heart and enjoy the fights. (That’s definitely a strategy to which it’s possible to overcommit. [EDIT: I no longer think the linked essay is a good example of Groth overdoing it; there probably is an appropriate example, but months later, I’m not inclined to dig around and find one.]) Of course, even Edmund Wilson wasn’t as pure about keeping his personal relationships from affecting his writing as Mason makes out. (Just see the Wilson/Nabokov letters for one prominent falling out and the resulting critical blind spot.) In any case, if I’m going to keep meeting cartoonists whose work I want to write about, I really need to figure this out.

More about the panel later, maybe, if I decide it’s a good idea to explain that photo … (I’ll say this much: I wasn’t cranky because I wasn’t getting enough attention; I was disheartened by what was being said. Read Craig Fischer’s re-cap for some of the flavor.)

Maybe I’ll just let the eventual audio file speak for itself.

UPDATE: More on the panel, and a link to the audio, here.

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My favorite comic at MoCCA, honestly, was Benjamin Marra’s Night Business. A disciple of Paul Gulacy in spirit, Marra embodies a certain verve that I find refreshing in these mopey times. It may be a little too hardcore, too fanzine-ish for some Comics Comics readers, but for me, it’s a breath of fresh air, and a surprising find at MoCCA.

The story of a stripper who won’t be bought and a killer on the loose, Night Business trucks in noirish genre tropes but renders them with such detail and conviction that the woody dialogue and relentlessly stark lighting go down smoothly and enjoyably. I like the overall feeling of the comic and feel as though Marra is trying to single-handedly restore some “order” to comics. Marra’s layouts do most of the work, providing a structure for his detailed scenes — murder, XXX dancing, fights with a capital ‘F’ — and it sports one of the coolest covers I’ve seen in awhile. It’s totally over the top and worth checking out.

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So, since we’re all recovering here at Comics Comics from the insane heat wave of the last few days and the MoCCA festival I thought I’d try to jot down a few things for posterity. It was a good show, I thought, no? PictureBox table was killing it all day. Lauren Weinstein held it down both days debuting the magnificent Goddess of War, which may just be the best comic to come out this year so far. Gary Panter hung out for a bit, signing. CF was there. Michel Gondry arrived when we were all signing and it sort of became surreal. Especially during the fire drill when we were all standing on the corner of Houston and Lafayette and I thought to myself this is like a dream sequence in one of Gondry’s movies, weird. Fun, but weird.

Um, I did my lecture at the MoCCA gallery (thanks Kent!) and it probably couldn’t have gone better. It was a big relief. So for all of you folks who missed it fear not because it was recorded. More on that soon. (Thanks Tucker! Thanks Nina!) And thanks to everyone who came out and supported my wacky rantings, specifically: Tim Hodler, The CCC crew, Alex Holden, Tom K, Dash Shaw, Jon Vermiliyea, Blissy Higgs, R Siroyak, Chris Mautner, Jog, and everyone else who was there whom I can’t remember by name. It was your enthusiasm and interest that made it a good talk or at least fun for me. There were like 7 or 8 people who came up to me afterwards and were extremely positive, which was really rewarding. Thank you, thank you. Honest.

Oh, and for all of you who were there who didn’t get one of my handouts, I will be reprinting them and will make them available. Just send me an email and I’ll get you one eventually.

I’m planning on doing a nice article on the Closed Caption Comics crew who were out in force at this year’s MoCCA. They are a pretty amazing group of artists with strong individual voices. I recommend their blog to get acquainted, CCC, until the article finds its way on to this blog and into the magazine. Most of the CCC artists are printmakers and they embody a particular spirit in comics that I think is extremely important to cultivate. Meaning that if you don’t learn how to make your own books from scratch and familiarize yourself with the ins and outs of how do it all: writing, drawing, printing, distributing, selling, promoting at shows — then you are missing something. And the CCC crew do it all.

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The PictureBox site is mysteriously sick right now, so here goes:

PictureBox will be at the MoCCA comics festival this weekend at NYC’s Puck Building (At the corner of Lafayette and Houston).

We will debut the following books and zines:

-Goddess of War by Lauren Weinstein
-Cold Heat Special by Jim Rugg and Frank Santoro
-Core of Caligula by CF
-We Lost the War but Won the Battle by Michel Gondry
-Crazy Town by Paul Gondry
-Bicycle Fluids (not) by Matthew Thurber
-Faded Igloo by Jim Drain
-The Museum of Love and Mystery by Jim Woodring (a Presspop edition)
-Cold Heat Special by Ryan Cecil Smith

Michel Gondry, Paul Gondry, Gary Panter, Frank Santoro, Lauren Weinstein, CF and Matthew Thurber will all be in attendance.

The schedule is:

Saturday:

11-12: Frank Santoro and Lauren Weinstein
12-2: Michel Gondry, Paul Gondry and Lauren Weinstein
2-3: CF, Frank Santoro, Gary Panter
3-4: Gary Panter, CF, and Lauren Weinstein
3:45-4:55: Frank Santoro Lecture @ MoCCA!
4-5: CF, Michel Gondry, Paul Gondry
5-6: CF and Dan Nadel in Conversation @ MoCCA!
5-6: Lauren Weinstein, Michel Gondry, Paul Gondry

Sunday:

11-12: Frank Santoro & Lauren Weinstein
12-2: Michel Gondry, Paul Gondry, Lauren Weinstein
2-3: Frank Santoro, Matthew Thurber, Lauren Weinstein
3-5: Michel Gondry, Paul Gondry, Matthew Thurber

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Tonight I’m moderating a panel with Kim Deitch, Evan Dorkin and Lauren Weinstein. Three generations of inspired lunacy. Come on out! Here’s the info:

The AIGA NY Presents:

Draw

Bamboozled beauties, hunky heroes and eccentric side-kicks populate the quirky universe of graphic novels and comic books. Dazzling drawings elevate plot points while witty repartee illuminates characters. Dan Nadel from Grammy Award-winning PictureBox, Inc. will explore this marriage of image to word with three artists that wield pen and pencil with equal dexterity. Kim Deitch introduces brilliant beings like Waldo the Cat into the comix cannon; Evan Dorkin chronicles dairy products gone bad in “Milk & Cheese”; Lauren R. Weinstein charts teenage angst in her semi-autobiographical “Girl Stories.” Come join this trio for a talk on crafting prose and drawn protagonists.

Speakers
Dan Nadel is the publisher/editor/art director of PictureBox, Inc., a Grammy Award-winning New York-based packaging and publishing company. Its most recent releases include Gary Panter. He is the author of Art Out of Time: Unknown Comic Visionaries 1900–1969. PictureBox has recently opened a retail space in Brooklyn’s Gowanus neighborhood, featuring an international assortment of books, records, prints, editions and sundries.

Kim Deitch has a reserved place at the first table of underground cartoonists. The son of UPA and Terrytoons animator Gene Deitch, Kim was born in 1944 and grew up around the animation business. He began doing comic strips for the East Village Other in 1967, introducing two of his more famous characters, Waldo the Cat and Uncle Ed, the India Rubber Man. In 1969 he succeeded Vaughn Bodé as editor of Gothic Blimp Works, the Other’s underground comics tabloid. During this period he married fellow cartoonist Trina Robbins and had a daughter, Casey. “The Mishkin Saga” was named one of the Top 30 best English-language comics of the 20th Century by The Comics Journal, and the first issue of The Stuff of Dreams received the Eisner Award for Best Single Issue in 2003. Deitch remains a true cartoonists’ cartoonist, adored by his peers as much as anyone in the history of the medium.

Evan Dorkin is the creator of MILK AND CHEESE, DORK, and HECTIC PLANET, all published by SLG/Amaze Ink. He’s also put in time at Marvel (Bill and Ted’s Excellent Comic, Agent X, The Thing: Night Falls On Yancy Street), Dark Horse (Hellboy: Weird Tales, The Dark Horse Book Of Hauntings, The Mask) and DC (Superman and Batman: World’s Funnest, Bizarro), among other comics publishers. His work has appeared in such publications as Esquire, Spin, The Onion, Mad, Disney Adventures, Penthouse Hot Talk and Nickelodeon magazine and he recently provided the cover art and interior illustrations for Larry Doyle’s novel, I Love You, Beth Cooper, published by Harper Collins. He’s written for Space Ghost Coast To Coast, Superman, Batman Beyond and The Shin-Chan animated series. He was the creator of the Welcome To Eltingville animated pilot, which aired on the Cartoon Network’s Adult Swim block of programming, and was based on his Eltingville Club strips from Dork. It was a terrific bomb. His second pilot for the Swim, Tyrone’s Inferno, was shelved last year before it could reach bomb status. He is currently working as a writer and designer for the children’s show Yo Gabba Gabba!, contributing to Mad and Nickelodeon magazine, writing material for the Bart Simpson comic from Bongo, and developing a series for Dark Horse comics along with collaborator Jill Thompson.

Lauren R. Weinstein is a cartoonist. Her most recent book, Girl Stories, was published by Henry Holt and was rated one of Booklist’s top 10 great graphic novels for teens. Her work has been featured in Yale University Press’s Anthlogy of Graphic Fiction and Houghton Mifflin’s Best American Comics of 2007. Currently, Lauren teaches drawing and cartooning to children and adults at the 92nd Street Y, Parsons School of Design, and the School of Visual Arts. In 2003, she was the recipient of the Xeric Grant, allowing her to self-publish her first book, Inside Vineyland. In 2004, she received the Ignatz award for “Promising New Talent.” Her comics and illustrations have appeared in The New York Times, Glamour, McSweeney’s, LA Weekly, The Chicago Reader, Kramer’s Ergot, and Seattle’s The Stranger. Currently she is working on the sequel to Girl Stories, tentatively entitled Calamity. Her sci-fi fantasy comic entitled The Goddess of War is coming out in May, 2008 from PictureBox.

TIME AND PLACE

Wednesday 4 June 2008 6:30–8:00PM
Galapagos
70 North 6th Street
between Kent and Wythe
Williamsburg, Brooklyn, NY 11211
718 782-5188
galapagosartspace.com

6:30–7:00PM Registration
7:00–8:00PM Presentation

$20 AIGA member
$10 AIGA student member
$30 general public

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I’m going to be giving a lecture at MoCCA on saturday June 7th at 3:45. I hope that anyone who enjoys this blog, or my approach to comics, will come out.

It’s going to be about static and dynamic symmetry in art and how it applies to comics. There’s a couple handouts and I promise it won’t be boring. I’ve been keeping notes, preparing for it for weeks now, so I can promise you that it will be informative and entertaining.

I do a great Swannee.

and also, of course, Dan and Tim and I will be our usual peppy selves at the Puck Building on saturday and sunday for the actual MoCCA festival.

June 7 Saturday 3:45pm MoCCA Gallery, 594 Broadway (Suite 401), just below Houston.